Summary of the Nordic Poodle Meeting 2010 Horsens, Denmark 9 October – 10 October
The meeting was held at Scandic Bygholm Park Hotel and hosted by the Danish Poodle Club.
The meeting was held in English.
Participants:
Lena Tellberg, Swedish Poodle Club
Tone Bekkåsen Fischer, the Norwegian Poodle Club
Johanna Markola, Finnish Poodle Club
Henrik Hannelius, Finnish Poodle Club
Jytte Pfänner, Danish Poodle Club
Jes Breinholt Carlsen, Danish Poodle Club
Tina Sørensen, Secretary of the meeting, Danish Poodle Club
Jytte wished everyone welcome and declared the meeting open. The meeting started with a short presentation of every participant:
Tone Bekkåsen Fischer, breeder and President of the Norwegian Poodle Club.
Lena Tellberg, breeder and member of the breeding committee in the Swedish Poodle Club.
Johanna Markola, breeder and President of the Finnish Poodle Club.
Henrik Hannelius, breeder, judge and Chairman of the breeding committee in the Finnish Poodle Club.
Jytte Pfänner, breeder and President of the Danish Poodle Club.
Jes Breinholt Carlsen, breeder and Chairman of the breeding committee in the Danish Poodle Club
Tina Sørensen, member of the board in the Danish Poodle Club
Club update since last meeting.
THE NORWEGIAN POODLE CLUB has about 1500 members the number of members are increasing. One main factor is that poodle owners automatically become a member when
Signing up for membership in the Norwegian Kennel Club. These people are offered a membership
In the Norwegian Poodle Club as they sign up for their membership in NKK. All new puppy owners get a 40 day free membership in NKK that gives NPK opportunity to send some material.
It’s the KC which sends out bills to all members, they administrate all membership fees. It’s mandatory to be a member of a dog club if you want to show or participate in obedience trials, agility etc. The membership fee is divided so that the NPK receives 275 NKR, and the NKK 140 NKR. This deal is generally speaking mostly positive.
Another contributing factor is that potential buyers of a poodle puppy turn to the club’s puppy referral. It’s a Norwegian custom to look for quality, and potential buyers expect that the NPK will refer to quality breeders who breed from quality stock. By this contact with the puppy referral, it’s is a good way to get people to join the club and its activities.
The main board consists of 7 members. The Breeding committee consists of 5 people, one coordinator and one representative for each variety. The breeding committee has meetings twice a year. The coordinator reports back to the main board. Since the last Nordic meeting is there created a new committee for breeding and a committee for obedience/agility.
The NPK’s Breeding committee hosts a breeder’s conference once a year. Finances are good and stable.
NPK publishes a magazine for all members, Puddel-Nytt, 4 times a year. The responsible producer does not get paid for the work to put it together.
As for the number of registered poodles per year, there are:
2009: 109 (2008: 93).
301 (2008: 432) Standards/year (the price for a Standard puppy is normally around 12 000 NKR)
204 (2008: 195) Miniatures/year (the price for a Miniature puppy is normally around 15 000+ NKR)
234 (2008: 215) Dwarfs/year (the price for a Dwarf puppy is normally around 15 000+ NKR)
109 (2008: 93) Toys/year (the price for a Toy puppy is normally around 15 000+ NKR)
THE SWEDISH POODLE CLUB. The number of members per September 2010 is 3699 people.
There are 9 members on the main board.
The club is divided into 4 different regions; the Southern, Western, Mid-Swedish and Northern Poodle
Club. All rule under the main board of the Swedish Poodle Club (CS). Each year delegates meet
To vote for people elected for the main board, and also make decisions on various topics sent in as
Petitions for the Poodle Council to act upon.
Each region organizes their own activities and they all stage at least 2 official Specialties per year.
These specialties have from approx 60-150 poodles entered per show. In 2010 are there 14 shows.
The magazine Pudel Nytt is published 4 times a year and the club pay 15 000 SEK/issue to a professional
Designer who produce the magazine. The magazine is in full colour.
The main board organizes the Poodle National which is held every 3 years. A Poodle Seminar mainly attracting new and old breeders is hosted every second year. The board is also responsible for organizing judging conferences which is hosted every 10 years. There is still work with the database to exhibition critiques. SPK is working on a temperament description of the poodle, and a breeder strategy, who expected to be ready next year.
As for the number of registered poodles, in 2009 there were:
504 Standards (the price for a Standard puppy is normally around 12 000-15000 SEK)
412 Miniatures(the price for a Miniature puppy is normally around 10 000+ SEK)
649 Dwarfs (the price for a Dwarf puppy is normally around 12 000+ SEK)
194 Toys (the price for a Toy puppy is normally around 15 000+ SEK)
THE FINNISH POODLE CLUB. The numbers of members are around 1947 people.
There are 8 members on the main board. The board is the same as at the meeting in Malmö.
The magazine Puudeli is published 4 times a year and put together by a volunteer.
There are 9 local clubs around the country. Local clubs organize the main activities. Lectures,
grooming courses, obedience/show/agility courses, tracking racing, mental tests, health checks,
breeding value examinations.
Local advisors for people to call for advice on various things related to owning a poodle.
Breeding council: president Henrik Hannelius, with 4 breeders from each variety.
One specialty show yearly.
Obedience and agility championships are organized yearly. These competitions are organized by local clubs. The local club can show interest in organizing the events by applying to the main board.
The number of registered poodles, in 2009 there were:
131 Standards (the price for a Standard puppy is normally around 1 000 -1 300 EUR)
305 Miniatures (the price for a Miniature puppy is normally around 1 000 -1 300 EUR)
447 Dwarfs (the price for a Dwarf puppy is normally around 1 200-1 500 EUR)
174 Toys (the price for a Toy puppy is normally around 1 200-1 500 EUR)
All same activities going on. Some dogs (29) have been in these breeding value examinations, that where started 2009. Not all dogs have passed (3). All these dogs are listed on the poodle clubs web
page: http://www.villakoirakerho.com/jalostus/jalostustarkastetut.htm
Biggest changes in Finland are caused by the Finnish Kennel Club they have started writing breeding strategy, which was causing a "riot" at first. Hopefully they will make it more realistic and it will serve as a good guideline, not making breeding impossible...
For more information please see the attached appendix: Development of SAR colours in Finland and Statistics about puppies registered in Finland
THE DANISH POODLE CLUB. The number of members per September 2010 is 891 members, a small increase since 2008. We publish The Club Magazine – PUDEL NYT - 5 times a year. Here are published interesting articles about the Poodle, health issues, show results and a calendar of activities around the country. In 2010 we changed the Magazines Layout and now it comes in full colour. We have a website www.pudelklubben.dk with lots of information around the Club.
Prices for publishing for members:
1/1 side colour 450,- in our magazine. Puppy ad: 100, for 4 months, Breeder ad: 100,- per year, Stud dog ad: 125,- per year, prices incl. ad on the website as well. All amounts are in Danish crowns.
We have free ad for new Champions, and at the website also old Champions can be presented free of charge.
The Club also has its own Obedience department, who runs obedience/agility divisions in Odense and in Aalborg, where we offer classes from puppy to elite class. From 2010 the mother club took over the treasure job. The activities have gone down in Odense, and it seems impossible to find persons interested in education for training obedience/agility.
We (the Show department) organise app. 6 Shows a year, and try to invite breeder judges or poodle specialists. The entry is between 60 - 85 poodles. The same persons run all the Shows.
The Club is divided into 11 divisions, but unfortunately it has not been possible to find persons for all the divisions, therefore we only have activities in 8 of them. They arrange activities in the different parts of Denmark which we find very important, especially the pet care lessons are very popular, we also have Club-evenings, we arrange open shows, veterinarian lectures, show grooming lessons etc. Only one person runs the division in co-operation with a board member. Unfortunately it seems as the interest from our members to join these activities is getting poorer, except the grooming part.
The number of registered poodles, in 2009 there were:
131 Toys (the price for a Toy puppy is normally around 10 000-12 000 DKR)
162 Dwarfs (the price for a Dwarf puppy is normally around 8 500 DKR)
57 Miniatures (the price for a Miniature puppy is normally around 8 500 DKR)
101 Standards (the price for a Standard puppy is normally around 8 500 DKR)
As you can see 2009 was a poor year for Miniatures. A total of 451 puppies, (in 2008 total 507, and in 2007 total 485)
We had the following imports in 2009:
Toys: 7 (7)
Dwarfs: 7 (4)
Miniatures: 0 (2)
Standards: 10 (7)
Total: 24 (in 2008 total: 20 and in 2007 total: 29)
A couple of years ago the Club finally got a Poodle profile in DKK, and it is now possible for us to arrange our own mental tests. Our goal is to arrange mental tests 2 -3 times a year. But only 15 poodles did the test 2008-2009.
For more information please see the attached appendix: Updates for Danish Poodle Club since last Poodle meeting
GENERAL CONCLUSION
What can we learn from Finland and Norway, which has increased membership and increase litters?
In Norway they see the family dog as very important and do a lot for the family
dogs. They also are going to the media to promote our breed. In Sweden the breeder
pays a part for the member fee for the new puppy owners. There are an increasing
number of members within the Finnish Poodle Club and the reason for this is
that the breeders push their puppy buyers towards all the activities that the
club is organizing on a Yearly basis. Most of the local clubs are very enthusiastic
and they organize a lot of happenings. There are very good and trained coaches
for different activities around the country. In Finland are dwarf poodles very
popular to AG and the Poodle is generally perceived as a healthy race. The poodle
has a reputation for being a very easy and clever dog.
Health’s update incl. breeding regulations.
HIP DYSPLASIA
For registration
Sweden Standards Mandatory, only A or B are accepted
Norway Known Hip status
Denmark Hips score D & E not allowed to breed from
Finland No special requirements
For puppy referral
Sweden Standards is the same as registration
Norway Standards Parents must be certified free of HD
Miniatures Known Hip Status, A can be used with a C
Denmark is the same as registration.
Finland Standards Only A & B, C can be used with A or B. Miniatures Known Hip status recommended
PRA
For registration:
Sweden T, D & M Mandatory, only PRCD A and B are allowed
Norway T, D & M None
Denmark T, D & M Mandatory, only PRCD A and B are allowed
Finland T, D & M None
Standards None
For puppy referral:
Sweden T, D & M Same as registration
Norway T, D & M Certified free of PRA or Optigen tested
Standards Certified free of PRA and cataracts
Denmark T, D & M Same as registration
Finland T, D & M PRCD A, B + C can be used, B and C can only be used with A. A dog needs to be opthalmology tested before mating. If the dog is Optigen A, the FPK still require a new opthalmology test later on (5 years) for the other eye problems.
Standards Certified free of PRA and cataracts
ADDISONS DISEASE IN STANDARDS
AD is considered to be a well known disease in Standards in Sweden. The Swedish Poodle Club participates in a big study along with the American Poodle Club and scientists from both countries.
The NPK has compiled a list of confirmed cases of AD in Standards, the list span over a period of 10+
years and consist of < 50 confirmed cases.
There are a few cases of AD in Standards reported in Finland, but not an alarming number.
There are no statistics available of AD known in Standards in Denmark.
EPILEPSY
This disease exists in all sizes.
SEBACIOUS ADENITIS IN STANDARDS
A disease subject to concern amongst breeders, but is not considered to be a problem in any of the
Countries. There are cases reported in Sweden, Norway and Finland but the number reported is normally less than 5 cases in each country per year.
Finland does require that both parents are SA tested prior to being bred from. Scientific research is ongoing and all clubs anticipate a gene test for SA.
PATELLA PROBLEMS IN TOYS, DWARFS AND MINIATURES
In Norway you need a known Patella status in order to receive puppy referral by the NPK. Dogs graded with 1 should be used with 0.
In Finland a lot of dogs have been tested and it is not considered to be a problem in any of the varieties.
EYE HAIR (Distichiasis ektopisk cillier)
Does exist in the smaller varieties and is something that needs to be played attention to.
CUSHINGS DISEASE
Does exist in the smaller varieties but is not considered to be a problem.
GENERAL CONCLUSION
Standard poodles:
There should be more openness about all health outcomes, especially Addison seen as the key problem
There are different opinions about HD this is not seen as the biggest, although most have taken X-ray pictures. We must beware of temperament in standard poodles, as this is a big dog.
In Sweden and Finland, there is only one vet who evaluates the pictures. In Denmark, two veterinarians evaluate the images. It was discussed where to send the HD X-rays and the difference in how different countries rated pictures.
Miniatures poodles:
HD and epilepsy is seen as the key problems in miniatures. Patella Lux is not considered to be a problem.
Toy- and dwarf poodles:
Patella Lux and Distichiasis ektopisk cillier and epilepsy is seen as the key problems in Toy- and dwarf
There are no material regarding HD, but maybe there is a problem because many dogs come from the same lines as the Miniatures poodles.
In 2008/2009 the Danish Poodle Club made a health survey among the members. The result was in general very positive.
For more information please see the attached appendix: Health survey in the
Danish Poodle Club.
Solid colour / parti colour / Size interbreeding
SOLID COLOUR / PARTI COLOUR
The Finnish poodle club has sent a letter to Finnish kennel club that they would registrate all poodles by their phenotype, so that we will also later on know what those dogs were and where they came from. We have also asked that they would not registrate puppies from a combination multi coloured + solid coloured. That would keep our solid coloured poodles solid. And we still would know what solid
coloured poodles have produced for example black & tan. this has been approved in our Kennel club 21.01.2010
In Norway it is not allowed to breed parti colour poodles acc. to the kennel club, but blue (bad black) can be registered.
In Sweden they try to get parti colour within the poodles in the kennel club, which is against FCI
It is also allowed to use parti colour poodles in breeding. Only the solid colours that can come on SK's puppy list, where parents must have at least one first prize. Blue (bad black) can be registered.
In Denmark it is not allowed to breed parti colour poodles.
NPKs rules for mating between the different colors:
As a general rule in breeding use color to color.
Mating between black and brown and apricot / red is allowed in all sizes
In Standard poodles mating between black and white is allowed.
SIZE INTERBREEDING
NPK’s rules for mating of the different size variations:
Standard only with standard poodles
Miniature only with miniature poodles
Dwarf only with dwarf- or toy poodles
Toy only with toy- or dwarf poodle
SPK’s rules for mating of the different size variations:
Prohibition with standard and other variants.
FPK recommend size to size.
GENERAL CONCLUSION
Allow all solid colours with special mentioning of each colour having natural shadings. The
colours should be defined by true Poodle colours such as Black, White, Brown, Silver, Apricot,
Red, Blue, Cream etc. Keep the solid coloured poodles solid.
Norway, Finland and Denmark do not want the parti colour poodles to be allowed in breeding and should not be able to be registered.
Sweden and Denmark is fine with size interbreeding in the small varieties.
Cacib’s toys
The kennel clubs determines the number of CAC's, but not the number of CACIB's
The SAR-colours are shown separated to the other colours in Finland and Denmark although not in Toy.
And they do not want to have a colour breakdown (SAR & HSB)
In Sweden and Norway the colour is not divide to SAR & HSB and they do not want to have a colour divide (SAR & HSB). The SAR colours are not treated with any favors over other colours. Norway would, however like to have 2 CAC. They have applied the Kennel Club, but the result was a rejection.
Please see the attached appendix for details: Letter to The Norwegian Kennel Club and their answer.
All countries wishing 2 CACIB's to Toy poodles.
GENERAL CONCLUSION
Every country will apply their Kennel Club for 2 CACIB's to Toy poodles
Denmark makes a proposal for a joint letter signed by all the Nordic Poodle
Clubs, to the FCI’s Standard Committee and the French Poodle Club.
The standard
The standard was section by section thoroughly discussed. It was found that
there were differences between the various translations.
Please see the attached appendix for the full standard: FCI-Standard N° 172 / 18.04. 2007/GB
Tone had brought suggestion for changes in the standard from the Poodle Club of Israel.
Please see the attached appendix for the suggestions: Poodle Club of Israel
suggestion for changes in the standard
Desired changes are marked in green font. What we desired to be removed from the standard is strikethrough.
GENERAL CONCLUSION
Remove the section describing the faults and severe faults, as they already are in the standard and only keep a list of disqualifying faults. Add to the standard: Full dentition is desirable
LIMBS
FOREQUARTERS: Perfectly upright and parallel, well muscled with good bone. The height from the elbow to the ground is slightly more than half the height at withers.
Shoulders: Sloping, muscular. The shoulder blade forms an angle of approximately 110° to the humerus.
Upper arm: The length of the humerus corresponds to that of the shoulder blade.
Carpus (wrist): In continuous line with front of forearm.
Metacarpus (pastern): Strong and almost upright seen in profile.
Front feet: Rather small, firm, of short oval shape. Toes are well arched and tight fitting. The pads are hard and thick. The nails are black in black and grey subjects. They are black or brown in brown
subjects. In whites the nails may be any colour in the range from horn colour to black. In the orange fawns and red fawns they are brown or black. Apricot and Red poodles can the claws be any shade from horn to black horn.
GAIT/MOVEMENT: The Poodle has a light and springy gait with good reach and drive.
FAULTS: Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.
· Roach or sway back.
· Tail set on too low.
· Too restless subject.
· Teeth:
Absence of 2PM1 is not taken into account.
Absence of one or two PM2, if symmetrical.
Absence of M3 is not taken into account.
SEVERE FAULTS:
Partially depigmented nose.
Snipey nose.
Pointed muzzle.
Arched bridge of nose.
Teeth:
Absence of two PM2 if not symmetrical.
Eyes too big or sunken, not dark enough.
Ears too short.
Croup falling away.
Tail curved over the back.
Rear anuglations too straight.
Flowing or extended gait.
Sparse, soft or harsh hair.
Colour not clearly defined or not uniform: blackish grey or whitish grey, washed out fawn, cream, beige in browns or very dark brown.
ELIMINATING FAULTS:
Aggressive or overly shy.
Nose completely depigmented.
Lack of type, particularly in head.
Overshot or undershot.
Teeth:
Absence of 1 incisor or 1 canine or 1 carnassial (P4 upper jaw, M1 lower jaw).
Absence of one PM3 or of one PM4
Absence of three or more PM (except PM1)
Lack of incisors and canines, and lack of more than 4 premolar/molar.
Absence of tail or naturally short tail.
Dewclaws or evidence of dewclaws on rear limbs.
Coat which is not solid colour.
White marks.
White hairs on feet.
Height exceeding 62cm in Standards and inferior to 23cm in Toys.
Any subject displaying signs of dwarfism, globulous skull, absence of occipital protuberance, very pronounced stop, prominent eyes muzzle too short and turned up, receding chin.
Median furrow practically inexistant.
Very light bone in Toys.
Tail curled with the tip falling over the flank or the croup.
Any dog clearly showing physical or behavioural abnormalities shall be disqualified.
N.B. Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum.
Addition to Standard
AUTHORIZED SHOW CLIPS
For addition to the Standard please see the attached appendix: FCI-Standard N° 172 / 18.04. 2007/GB
The breed Standard should mention all the traditional trims, such as the Continental trim,
English Saddle Clip, The Toilette-60 trim, Puppy trim, Second Puppy trim and the Scandinavian
T-trim. Allow any version of the latter trims. Also, allow any trim as long as the texture can be determined and trimmed without losing correct breed type. The Poodle must look like/remind of/ a poodle regardless of trim.
FCI Show regulations- show grooming incl. removal of whiskers
REGULATIONS FOR FCI DOG SHOWS
It is forbidden to treat the coat, skin or nose with anything that alters the structure, colour or form. It is forbidden to prepare the dog in the show ground with any substances or equipment. Only combing and brushing are allowed. It is also forbidden to leave the dog tied up on the trimming table longer than necessary for the preparation.
GENERAL CONCLUSION
We have compared the different countries regulations and there are some small differences.
We must try to stay ahead of what is coming of changes from the FCI.
Joined forces for REC meeting in Paris
REC has not been active in the period 1996 to 2009. The REC has no website,
but they're on facebook.
It costs 70 euros. per. year to be member of REC.
It is possible to obtain the REC champion title.
There is no election to the REC board and the chairman is by default the President of the French Poodle Club.
GENERAL CONCLUSION
What can we do to get influential in REC?
Try to demand that the REC meeting in Paris on 9th July 2011, to be held in English and not French.
We will write a polite letter to the REC, with the desire to have the date of the meeting changed to after WDS show and to who and where proposals must be send to.
Finland makes a proposal.
Meeting closes
All agreed this had been a much needed and inspiring meeting. The clubs mentioned
there is a demand for these type of meeting and agree to meet again in Norway
in 2011 and in Finland in 2012
This summary was compiled by the secretary of the meeting, Tina Sørensen
All Clubs have read and approved of the summary before being published officially.
Appendix
1. Development of SAR colours in Finland - Amount of SAR poodles in all sizes 2010.pdf
2. Statistics about puppies registered in Finland - Registrations in Finland.pdf
3. Updates for Danish Poodle Club since last Poodle meeting: Updates for Danish Poodle Club since last Poodle meeting.pdf
4. FCI-Standard N° 172 / 18.04. 2007/GB: 172GB2007_en.pdf
5. Health survey in the Danish Poodle Club: Danish Poodle Club - health survey.pdf
6. Poodle Club of Israel suggestion for changes in the standard: Poodle Club of Israel suggestion for changes in the standard.pdf
7. Letter to The Norwegian Kennel Club and their answer: Letter to the Norwegian Kennel Club and their answer.pdf